.45-70 vs .308 Win: Which is Better?

.45-70 vs .308 Win: Which is Better?
July 26, 2022 Edited March 28, 2023 28615 view(s)
.45-70 vs .308 Win: Which is Better?

The U.S. military drove the development of both cartridges, but the similarities—other than the mandatory bullet, case, propellant and primer—pretty much end there in a .45-70 Gov’t vs. .308 Win. comparison. The former is one of the oldest designs still in commercial production, with good reason. The other isn’t exactly a youngster, celebrating its 70th birthday this year, but it’s still serves with honor with our armed forces across the globe in its lower-pressure 7.62 NATO iteration.

The secret to their longevity is enviable performance, but in vastly different applications. They rarely, if ever, shine in the same duties. A look at their numbers tells the tale.

 

History

.45-70 Gov’t 

The U.S. Army adopted the .45-70 Gov’t in 1873, three years before Gen. Custer’s ill-fated last stand. The military requirements it met prior to approval included 4-inch groups at 100 yards.

Today groups that wide are almost unheard of, even from abused rifles. It was a different time, though, the original cartridges used blackpowder for propellant and gun making wasn’t as precise. Bullet manufacturing was far from scientific, too. 

The official designation at introduction was .45-70-450, with the middle number reflecting powder charge and the last indicating bullet weight. Subsequent testing indicated heavier projectiles increased effective range, so in 1879 (too late for the 7th Cavalry, not that it would have helped) the .45-70-500 became standard issue. The military put an end to the cartridge’s 19-year run in 1892 when it adopted the .30-40 Krag, although rifles in the older chambering continued use for some time. 

Combine modern smokeless powder, improved projectiles and CNC-produced rifles and one-inch groups at 100 yards are no longer unicorn rare with the cartridge. At long-distance, however, the trajectory and energy still fall in dramatic fashion.

The .45-70 Gov’t term is shorthand for .45-70 Government, but there are other labels. Some call it the .45-70 Springfield (for the first rifle chambered for it) or simply .45-70. Hornady includes it in a parenthetical listing as the 1895 Marlin.

It’s earned a variety of names, likely a byproduct of age., but the same can’t be said for the .308 Win.

45-70 bullet on workbench

 

.308 Win.

Members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization officially adopted the 7.62 NATO cartridge in 1954, two years after Winchester introduced the .308 Win. to civilians. The pair are virtually identical, although the former’s slightly lower pressure allows it to run safely in either chambering—.308 Win. ammo, on the other hand, is not ideal for guns chambered for 7.62 NATO.

Accuracy from the cartridge is almost legendary. It’s used in long-distance competition to this day and favored by some of the world’s best precision shooters. The records it set were staggering, although many—likely all soon—are being eclipsed by a new slew of .300 and .338 Magnums, .50 BMGs and others.

Its ageless versatility took the spotlight, however, during the global war on terrorism, when operations began in Afghanistan. Engagements there were often ridgeline to ridgeline, out of the effective range of the standard-issue M4 and 5.56 NATO cartridge. Expensive precision rifles designed for serious long distance aren’t widely available, so armorers came up with an innovative solution.

M14s chambered for 7.62 NATO mothballed for decades were retrofitted with modern furniture. Issued to designated marksmen within platoons they could stretch the distance and neutralize insurgent snipers who, until then, could rain deadly fire on platoons largely unencumbered.

That’s just the primary advantage of the .308 Win. and its 7.62 NATO fraternal twin. Despite the slight and virtually undetectable physical different, both are predictable in flight and deliver fight-stopping energy at distance.

For that reason, and the fact it can run in every firearm design, the .308 Win. is often claimed to be the most popular hunting cartridge in the United States.  The short-action cartridge gained a whole new generation of enthusiasts with its uncompromising performance in AR-10s.

.308 bullet on workbench

 

Ballistics

Velocity and Energy

The .40-70 Gov’t bullet has a diameter of .458 inch and the projectiles loaded in today’s cartridges are, in most cases, heavy enough to put big game down with one-shot authority—with proper shot placement at moderate distance. Federal Premium’s 300-grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw load is one of the heavyweights availably today, but it helps illustrate the dramatic ballistic difference for a .45-70 Gov’t vs. .308 Win. comparison.

The bullet leaves Federal’s test barrel at 1,850 fps. The sheer mass of that projectile, however, means it is carrying 2,280 ft.-lbs. of energy at the muzzle.

The .308 Win. has a bullet diameter of .308 inch. Federal Premium’s 180-grain Trophy Bonded load in the cartridge exits the gun at 2,620 fps with 2,743 ft.-lbs. of energy—the winner by a wide margin. At 300 yards it has slowed down to 2,277 fps but still manages to have 1,789 ft.-lbs. of knockdown power. At that point, the above .45-70 Gov’t load’s figure drops to only 797, roughly half.

Even with lighter bullets in the .45-70 Gov’t the drop-off is dramatic. Hornady’s LEVERevolution line includes a 250-grain load that manages 2,025 fps leaving the barrel with 2,276 ft.-lbs. of energy. Despite the higher initial speed, its energy figure still plummets to 636 at 300 yards. At 200, if you’re wondering, it’s 918.

The figures may leave some wondering why the cartridge has survived for nearly 150 years. Its secret lives inside somewhere inside 150 yards, where most hunters in the United States take their big game.  It’s there that the energy is sufficient and, when combined with the wider bullet diameter, it’s a combination that fills tags. It really shines for big game up close—tough ones, like American bison and big bears.

At 100 yards the Federal .45-70 Gov’t load carries a 1,569 ft.-lb. punch. Hornady’s lighter bullet delivers 1,450. Add modern bullet design and both hit with tag-filling authority.

 

Legacy

It also oozes nostalgia. The single-shot Springfield Trapdoor rifles carried by Gen. Armstrong Custer’s troopers at the Little Bighorn were chambered in .45-70-Gov’t. The bullets their cartridges wore weighed an even more formidable 405 grains.

Its design, however, precludes use in semi-automatic firearms. The profile is even a challenge when it comes to bolt-action rifles. Not many exist and their scarcity makes them popular among collectors.

The .308 Win., however, lends itself to reliable feeding and extraction in every method of operation. It’s available in semi-automatics, like the AR-10, bolt actions, single shots and even lever actions.

 

.45-70 vs. .308 Exterior Ballistics

The .308 Win. also has a flatter trajectory. Zeroed at 100 yards, the Federal 300-grain .45-70 Gov’t bullet drops 13.4 inches at 200 yards and more than four feet at 300. The company’s 180-grain .308 Win. load, with the same zero drops 3.4 inches at 200 yards and 15.4 inches at 300. The difference is huge and widens with distance.

Add a 10-mph full value wind and the .308 drifts 6.9 inches at 300 yards. At that distance, in the same breeze, the company’s .45-70 Gov’t load has moves more than two feet. Doping the wind is not an endeavor easily done by a novice, and a challenge for most experienced enthusiasts.

Any discussion of a cartridge’s potential accuracy is dubious, at best. There’s no doubt today’s cutting-edge CNC gun manufacturing has tightened groups in every firearm, regardless of chambering. One-hole groups are possible with either cartridge, in the right conditions. The exterior ballistics, however, make it obvious that the .458-inch diameter projectile requires a skilled marksman behind the trigger and quality ammo.

As a result, the .45=70 Gov’t has a relatively reputation for being inaccurate. Its origins as an early military cartridge laid that foundation.

45-70 and 308 bullets on workbench

 

Which One is Best?

Deciding which cartridge is best always comes down to individual preference and application. The .45-70 Gov’t is big, heavy and hits with undeniable authority at medium distance. With proper shot placement it will usually convince a big bear that its charge wasn’t such a good idea. It falls off quickly when things get long, although those lever-actions or single-shots are a blast from the past. They also add challenge to many favorite pursuits.

There’s a virtually unlimited number of firearms chambered for .308 Win. Regardless of what it’s in, the cartridge performs, is usually less expensive, much easier to find in the store, and if you’re going to stretch the distance wins by a wide margin. It’s businesslike and precise.

You can’t go wrong with either cartridge, but it’s a rare knowledgeable gun owner who doesn’t have at least one .308 Win. in their gun safe—and there’s good reason for that fact.

Comments

Please login to comment.

Don't have an account?

Sign Up for free
Ed Peterson
July 26, 2022
Please tell me there's a 45-70 ar in the works.
Josh H
July 30, 2022
There is. It costs around $4800
Brian T
August 6, 2022
There is as far a ballistics, it;s the .458 SOCOM. That is what it was made to mimic the power and do it in a AR15/M4 platform without modification! I'm just waiting on a pistol version to come back in stock here.
justin martin
August 6, 2022
I would love a 45-70 govt upper to add to my collection. Take my money lol
Michael Urban
August 26, 2022
LOL There is a company that makes one but there well over 3k in price. And that there may be an issue with reliability as its a 1st Gen rifle. They look cool as hell and are great and the caliber is a great camp gun for bear/predater gun. But when it comes down to it ill keep my Marlin lever gun for that job. So your question should be "tell me theres a "reliable" 45/70 AR in the works? lol I know if there was one on the market right now id buy it! But ill wait until they come out with a Gen2 to ensure its a reliable gun! LOL The Gen1s go out after product testing but they wont get all the kinks out until they sell a few and customers abuse them a bit to find out what breaks 1st or what other issues it may have? But yeah id love an AR chambered in 45/70 too! LOL
Ryan J Mobley
July 31, 2022
If your producing a AR10 version I would like to preorder.
gary mccormick
August 3, 2022
I grew up in South Carolina hunting with a 12ga shotgun, then the Marine Corps boot camp thought me to use the 7.62 X 51 and the M-14. My favorite to this day is still the 7.62 X 51 or 308, it's ability to drop game at 500 yards is very compelling. Several Springfield M1-A1 cambered in 308 are in my safe. That being said, I have several lever action 45-70 rifles and they not only look good, but are always a topic of interest. If you want to have a well rounded collection at least one of each should be in your safe with an AR-10. I also have a number of Bear Creek AR-15 in several calibers and they all are fun and reliable. So buy a couple and hit the range.
Herbert Carrico
August 3, 2022
A.R. 10 45-70 Signed me up please
Mike g
August 5, 2022
That would be something I would love to have in my collection
Ray Combs
August 6, 2022
45 70 would be a defiantly be a plus !!
Jawn Do
August 8, 2022
Look at that COAL. 45-70 can't be much longer than 450 Bushmaster. So would it be worth $$$$ for a 45-70 AR-10/LR-308? Or just buy a 450 Bushmaster and a lot of ammo. If there are some longer 45 cal bullets with better BC that could be loaded out to max AR-10 COAL, that would be the only advantage.
Justin
August 10, 2022
Still gotta give it to the 4570 Where I live we don't regularly make a 100 yd shots let alone anything beyond it And I want something that's gonna hit like a jackhammer And expend all of its energy not that target right over
Roger Johnson
August 13, 2022
Great read! Just purchased 450 BM and this helps me a lot.
Michael Urban
August 26, 2022
Yano i just love this article guys i thought it informative and interesting as well as entertaining.I have had a 45/70 1895 Marlin for some time now and i can say its a "cannon"!!! LOL I have rifles in 30/06 and 7mm-08 and even a 6.5Creedmoor. In my collection of AR's however all i have are AR15's chambered in all different calibers. I do have 3-5.56 M4 configured rifles with the FFSP and i just love the configuration. The rest are anything from 7.6x39 A BCA lol and 6.5Grendel BCA uppers. too 224Val,350Legend,and so on. It would be easier and shorter to list the calibers i dont own an AR15 in....hehe Out of all those guns i realized i dont own a .308Win. From you guys. Still waiting on my LPK and trigger but as soon as i receive those ill be ready to take it to the range the next day. Mail come late in the day :>/ lol Now i realize ill have ot buy a lot of different .3087 ammo though as theres so many different weighted bullets. So ill have ot get some 140gr threw to 180gr and higher. One box of every weight.....:>/ but it will be a while before i have the money but it will be worth it to find out what it likes best? If anyone else out there has one of BCAs 20" AR10 uppers can tell me what weighted bullets it likes best i would be grateful? Happy shooting all!!! :>)
Michael Urban
August 26, 2022
P.S. you guys are really stepping up to the plate to make it in the industry! I just love getting in on the ground floor as a customer! I witness how your company grows and what new products your going to come up with! I love your side chargers ,although i purchase standerd charging uppers as all spare parts i have are for that configuration. But i cant wait to see what you guys come up with next? The three things that have kept me coming back, are your quality, prices and the best customer service i have ever delt with in the industry! I have never been so well treaty as a customer any place else. Not to say other compaaanies dont have top customer service but they all could take lessons from you guys! Thanks BCA!!! keep up the great work and GOD BLESS YOU ALL AT BCA!!!
Michael Urban
August 26, 2022
P.S.S. lol one last short comment.....I woudl love to see some of your uppers/rifles come with even longer barrels. Like maybe a 243Win or .308/6.5CM in 24" to 26" barrels? same for other long distance calibers too? I have to buy all the parts from you guys but the barrels because i need something longer for Lopes in the midwest or goats in the mountains? lol
John
March 29, 2023
Well folks, I am a fan of the 30 06 with 180 or 220 bullets and my first choice is my 45 70 with 454 grain Garett bullets. Every thing I have shot with the 45 70 drops when hit. Note when using the 45 70 angle makes no difference since it will penetrate 6 to 7 feet of bone and meat. Occasionally with the 30 06 I have had to take a second shot, but not often. Note - open sights. I have a 300 win mag with a scope for shots 400 yards and further. May life treat all well
Matthew cochran
June 3, 2023
I have one of each in my closet. An 1895, M1A Springfield, OH and a Buffalo Classic ????
Robby
June 20, 2023
45-70 out to 150 Yards 100% over 308
Copyright © 2024 Bear Creek Arsenal, LLC. All Rights Reserved.